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February 08, 2012
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New Post 4/9/2008 10:45 PM
User is offline Jeff Krabach
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Giving to the Poor 

Ok, I was watching American Idol gives back tonight and it got me thinking.  What if we shut down every church in America?  What if every pastor stopped taking money for the work they do?  I hate watching shows that talk about poverty because I feel like a jerk for not doing anything.  But seriously what if every church just stopped playing this game of needing stuff for ourselves and just shut down its doors and every pastor realized that they did not need to be paid to do what they are doing?  How much money a month could we generate if people continued to give at the rate that they do now?  On the low side I could see Christians in America generating 50 million dollars a month.  Seriously that is on the low side.  Could you imagine what we could do with that?  So why are we still trying to pretend like we need a building to sink money into?  Or why are we pretending we need to pay a pastor to do the things that we are all capable of (this coming from a guy who is leaving professional ministry in the next 3 months never to return that I am aware of)?  50 million dollars a month.  Wow.  And that is an extremely low estimate.  I think more like billions or trillions a month is more realistic.  Isn't that what giving is all about anyways?  I would be amazed though if even one district of the denomination I am part of would even do this.  The reality is that most won't even try.  We love our money and the security it provides (I know I struggle with this too) and are afraid what it would mean if we gave up the comfort of the familiar church environment.  But imagine the possibility.

 
New Post 4/10/2008 10:50 AM
User is offline anonymous
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Re: Giving to the Poor 

we do waste a lot of money...both as individual consumers and as the institutional church...

what would it look like if we as followers of The Way would live our lives counter to the materialistic and consumeristic culture in which we live?    If we as the collective body of Christ would start living as though we follow Jesus and not the god of money things could be a lot different.  Bottom line, we don't look any different than anyone else in america, and until that changes...nothing else will change...

 
New Post 4/11/2008 8:59 AM
User is offline Chris Dilbone
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www.myspace.com/exit179
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Re: Giving to the Poor 

this is me by the way...I am no longer anonymous...

 
New Post 4/15/2008 5:20 PM
User is offline Greg Getz
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Re: Giving to the Poor 
Modified By Greg Getz  on 4/15/2008 4:20:40 PM)

500 billion over the last decade for church buildings...85% of the church budget going to buildings... You think that would make a lot of people "unpoor" if we liquidated it and met in facilities that are already availabel to us.

However, I think the paid pastor issue is different - Paul says it's different. While those who chose to refuse pay or go bivocational are worthy of double honor in my book, those who serve apostolically, in full-time teaching or pastoring rolls, may be equally worthy of double honor. Granted, if they are only doing what many other empowered can do, then you have a case.

 
New Post 4/16/2008 1:57 PM
User is offline Chris Dilbone
12 posts
www.myspace.com/exit179
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Re: Giving to the Poor 

let's not forget that Paul is talking about the "rights" of apostles and elders here.  Nowhere is the formal office of pastor as we understand it to be today mentioned in any of this.  Those who preach and teach...who are those?  Preaching and teaching have been relegated to what happens on Sunday morning during a 1.5 hour "service"(which really is no "service" at all...except that the people that come to the show are "served" and entertained).  To say that paul is advocating a professional clergy in its current form is a stretch in my mind.  I do agree though that there are some that should recieve some support from the church to do what they do...However, even Paul refuses these "rights" so that the gospel may advance. 

Isn't biblical new testament "preaching" usually intended for people that don't follow Jesus?  When is that happening if what we call preaching happens inside the church building?

I think the things pastors spend most of their time doing are things they wouldn't have to be doing if we the church were really being the church.  But if the church were really being the church it might put them out of a job...

I hope I don't sound combative...just putting some thoughts and questions out there...

 
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