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May 20, 2012
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New Post 5/7/2008 5:06 PM
User is offline Greg Getz
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Re: Simple Definition 

Good mull, Chris! Being a guy who's wired up apostolically and strategically (with a hint of teacher), I can't help it at times to come off as sterile. :O) Hang with me as I learn.

One of the reasons I'm driven to defining "missional" is because of the "A" word - accountability. As an apostle who's responsible to taking the Gospel into new areas and leading people who are gifted and given roles according to Ephesians 4, I have to have a discernment that holds people accountable to what they have signed up for. I cannot discern whether a person is acting missionally, religiously ("church-ally"), or just acting unless I have a definition of what I am discerning. Too many people are steeped in "churchianity" and cannot function missionally and I cannot help them (free them!) unless I understands what defines missional. And while I don't want to stand on a subjective intuition or some other warm, fuzzy concept, I also don't want to be legalistic with a complicated checklist.

Chris, you've pointed out another simple point, "relationship." Maybe defining missional must be done completely through the lense of Relationship - Relationship with the Gospel, Relationship with the Culture, Relationship with the Holy Spirit, and Relationship with the Transformative Process of the first three coming together.

If we are not clear on what missional is - it's definition - the trendsetters will steal it and neuter it as just the next church growth thingie. What is missional in its purest definition?

Back at me?

 
New Post 5/8/2008 7:26 PM
User is offline Chris Dilbone
12 posts
www.myspace.com/exit179
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Re: Simple Definition 

Now I'm not totally dismissing what you've said so far...I'm just asking more questions...

Greg, you're just like a couple of Apostle friends of mine(and that's not a bad thing)...we prophet types like to question everything you guys do...hahaha

why do we have to define that word?  Did paul have a definition for it? If so what was it? 

Does it matter to the kingdom wether someone is acting missionally, churchally, religiously, or just acting if people are being served and loved?  Of course we would say that the individual is missing something if the motivation isn't found in Christ's life in us, but why do I need a definition to descern if someone's motivation is pure?

We aren't discerning anything anyway...the holy spirit is discerning it and telling us what we need to know.  Peter was told by the holy spirit what ananias and sapphira had done.  I don't think Peter just "knew" something was up nor was it just "subjective intuition," it was a divine word given to him by God.  I'm not sure I understand why a definition of the word missional is going to make our jobs in the 5 fold ministry easier or more effective.

I feel like through the era of "modernity" we have so intelectualized the Gospel that we have no room or need for the Holy Spirit.  In our attempt to control this thing we've choked the life out of it.  We are so afraid that if our hands are taken off then the whole thing will implode.   I don't believe Paul or the early church had the kind of restraints we have today that we call "acountability."  I believe it was a different way of being the church at that time. 

Today's accountability is a way to control things so they don't go wrong.

The early church's accountability was a means to correct what went wrong.

At first glance it looks like today's idea is much better.  Let's put things into place so that nothing goes wrong in the first place so we don't have to clean up these kinds of messes.  HOWEVER, I believe this has been a dangerous move that has erased our trust in the holy spirit IN EACH OF US to will and to act according to his good purpose.  As Paul said in Romans 5:14 "I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another."

I think the early church had a better way of allowing the Spirit to do what only the Spirit could do, while physically stepping in when the need was there.  The accountability is there by the very nature of being in relationship with the very people we are holding accountable.  Paul had relationships with these folks and therefore had a standing with them. 

The entire book of Galations speaks to the concept of the exchange life and that is the very root of what it means to follow Jesus...aka being missional.  I would say that we start there and that's a pretty good start to it all.

 
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